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dart board;; science bs
rule #1: be kind
i mean, yeah. It's a diet that doesn't involve fast food, and does involve a lot of vegetables.
Good to have the study, but this isn't really that interesting.
The Mediterranean diet that is yummy and good for you:
sers le jauuuune collègue, et sers-le bien pâteux !
Sans glaçon, faut pas diluer
à la santé du colonel.... j'ai la gerbe rien que d'y penser c'est magnifique
So can Nationalized healthcare and a living wage
FoR those asking about sample and confounders....
"The study involved 105,614 women in California with an average age of 53 at the start of the study"
"The study had limitations – it looked only at women, and participants reported their own diet data – but independent experts suggested the findings were significant."
It sounds like a study related to strokes as they relate to menopausal women. The Mediterranean diet is promoted a lot amongst doctors knowledgeable in perimenopause/menopause.
I can't imagine someone purposefully design a study this way.
Does anyone have a list of the 103 food and drink items mentioned in the study? I'm always sceptical of the "Mediterranean diet" as, in my experience, this involves a fair amount of red meat, cheese, bread and some alcohol consumption.
Is there an agrees definition of Mediterranean diet for this type of study?
There's probably nothing wrong with unprocessed red meat. Studies show cheese is good for health over and over again. Bread used to be a super food and you can still get good bread but most of it is cake-like these days. Food for Life makes wonderful bread, sprouted grains and according to Scripture, yum!
A little alcohol never hurt anyone. Moderation and all that jazz. Be merry, don't fall over.
The biggest thing is eating plant-forward. Prioritizing 9-12 servings of fresh vegetables and fresh fruits(no more than 4-5 servings of fruit, especially high sugar fruits). Getting some nice clean fish routinely (2x a week or more), especially fatty fish high in omega-3 is excellent.
Plants contain many fat soluble vitamins, so olive oil or even butter or other healthy fats are a necessity. But again, moderation is key.
There is no healthy or unproblematic amount of alcohol. It's a neurotoxin.
Alcohol is a neurodepressant. It is not necessarily a toxin, as the dose makes the difference.
By your standard, you can pretty much call anything a neurotoxin, given enough quantity.
And I don't disagree with you, necessarily, except on the amount part. Wet brain is definitely a thing. And alcohol abuse will definitely wreck your brain, your liver, and most of your organs and even your entire body. And it won't stop there! It may ruin your relationships and leave you lonely and your only friend will be the bottle.
But the amazing thing is most people who drink (in moderation) don't suffer all those things.
It's kind of like we all need to eat. Some people just eat way too fucking much.
But nobody needs to drink alcohol. Is not a necessity by any means. It's merely elective and the amount of which it is detrimental is variable proportional to the consumption of it.
Yes, everything is poisonous, the dose makes the poison it is said. Every drop raises the risk of addiction, cancer and neurological damage. Alcoholism doesn't start when things fall apart. It can be functional alcoholism, rationalised by a personal believe that the drinking happens in moderation, denying that it has become a habit through its strong addiction mechanics, amplified by constant downplay and normalisation in society and public discourse.
Refreshing sensible comment for a change. People are fucking sheep.
I'm not disagreeing but Spanish people eat "jamon de York" which is processed red meat.
There are studies saying their in no benefit from any alcohol consumption.
So I'm keen to know what studies are actually measuring against as there is a lot of contradictory info out there.
As you say "moderation is key" but is it? I mean where has that been measured in these studies? If I say I eat 6000 calories but it is all Mediterranean food, is that going to bring my risk of stroke down in this paper?
Hence why I'm looking for the actual data.
There are studies that say roundup isn't bad for you.
Ngl. Reading that kind of made my brain hurt.
Please stop....
All right I've had a couple drinks.
Your first sentence seems completely irrelevant. What is Spanish people eating whatever have to do with anything it's processed red meat okay so ... what?
Moving on to your next sentence. I never claimed there's any benefit to alcohol consumption besides ... you know ... getting the buzz, socialization, maybe isolation though. Alcoholics are not a homogeneous group.
To thy own self be true? That's in regards to your third sentence and also the third paragraph apparently.
Yeah everything in moderation, buddy. Which then you go into a 6000 calorie diet which is about three times moderation... As far as stroke risk I couldn't tell you...
I sincerely believe you don't give a single fuck about the data.
Lol, ok. Interesting response.
Unprocessed red meat is probably fine - my point is that Mediterranean diets contains processed red meat. Is the study counting that?
Alcohol is also consumed by Mediterraneans. Is the study covering that?
Is the volume of calories controlled for, or the ammout of red meat, or alcohol?
I'm being a bit facetious with my stupid 6000 calories example, but thats kind of my point. It is not clear what a Mediterranean diet is from the write up. So we're both making assumptions without data.
You're assuming moderate = good. I'm being flippant by pointing out that that isn't what the write up says, because it isn't clear what it is testing for.
Sure, all things in moderate is a valid point. But thats not what the study is apparently saying.
It is equally valid to say "exercise is good". Sure, but what has that to do with a Mediterranean diet - which is the missing bit of info.
Anyway, not trying to piss you off. Enjoy your drink, in moderation of course ;)
Have a good weekend.
Well.. I'm 4 drinks into this successful Friday.
Let's skip meat. To each their own. Or sometimes, I like to say, to reach their round.
4 out of 5 blue groups consume alcohol regularly. Again, not good or bad, just is. Most do it in moderation, and that's seemingly good or okay. These people are regularly living to 100+ years old!
I enjoy facetiousness. I enjoy you. I'm quite facetious myself.
Yes! Moderate is good. That's the whole point. Moderation. Without moderation... Shit happens. Shit faced. Shit in the pants (literal). Shitting on people (hopefully just figuratively.) Which is not good. Unless you're into that? Heh.
You can never take a single study as gospel. There are countless studies in the literature and we obviously will have some confirmation bias. I think the ultimate goal is figuring out what works for you/me. People have different genotypes. Some people do really well on high carb low fat while others do great on high fat low carb. But we all need protein... I think we can all agree on that.
I'm wishing you the best. Trust yourself. Be authentic. It's appreciated.
Yeah, and when I used a bread maker during covid, my blood panels got worse after eating like a loaf a day
You thinking meat and cheese and bread and alcohol are by themselves bad for you makes me skeptical of you.
The funny thing about the med diet is that a lot of the prior studies looked at population statistics and postulated that the higher life expectancy near the med was due to diet. It was later found that rampant pension fraud was common in Greece and Italy and that the true life expectancy was no better than elsewhere.
I think it’s probably more likely that universal healthcare and the higher food standards of Europe reduce the risk of stroke
If you read the article, the study was done on US woman only.
Did they also adjust for stress and availability of health care?
The study is done on US women, so healthcare is a mere dream they once had.
Also if you can afford a Mediterranean diet in the US, you're probably decently well off and get better healthcare in general.
Kinda reminds me of those news stories about how people who drink 1-2 glasses of red wine 3-5 times per week have the best health outcomes. Like yeah, I get that rich people are doing fine.
and access to healthcare
Can you define a meaningful difference between “availability of” and “access to?”
yes, the difference is that when I wrote that I haven't had my coffee yet and completely missed the second half of your sentence. my bad.
haven't slept well in a while, with all the ICE being in my town stress.
Do you or anyone here also experience the trump effect? Where there’s just so much head spinning chaos generated in the constant barrage of news you start to catch his dementia in forgetting names and words that were once so easy to grasp not even a yr ago?
The human brain was not designed for the 24 hr news cycle. If you're already organized in a movement try to focus energy there. People give back more than they get usually.
If you're not currently in a Rapid Response or Mutual Aid network feel free to reach out I'm happy to talk about resources.
Also, if you're not already, make time for loved ones and friends. Do activities with them and share the burden.
I’m happy to check whatever resources you throw my way.
Today I just entirely stepped back from all the social media and news. Didnt look at any of it and just concentrated on my own projects. I can feel a bit of my brain coming back to me already
I think tomorrow I’ll throw a museum channel on and just have that in the background. I’ll happily take another day of detoxing
How to organize a rapid response from a very high level with further detailed resources. https://southerncoalition.org/resources/rapid-response-101/
Good general advice on organizing, also a good resource to find groups near you that are likely aligned. https://www.fiftyfifty.one/organizer-resources
That’s alright, neighbor, makes sense to me. I’ve found my stress move from the anxiety to the numb zone over the past week or two. Sometimes it feels silly to go through the motions of work and life, but just keep on keeping on, find some volunteer opportunities if you haven’t (I can DM you one if you want), and take care of yourself.
I'm keeping myself so fucking busy, between mutual aid and organizing. I don't think anyone can have a better support network, my friends literally go to hotels parking lots to check license plates for ICE. but it's still scary as fuck being stuck in the greencard process at this time.
Wouldn’t one difference be health insurance? There’s hospitals around but if you’re uninsured you may not have access to them. At least in the US
So, 25% being the upper limit, what's the lower limit?
Why the hell would I want to lower my chances of a stroke? I've been alive too long already, and what's left of America is going straight to hell.
You might enjoy the film Two Days. It has Paul Rudd. Who doesn't love that guy?