Another step towards the digital EU, where the banks can track all of your movements and the government can deny any purchases they donβt like.
Get fucked.
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Another step towards the digital EU, where the banks can track all of your movements and the government can deny any purchases they donβt like.
Get fucked.
This is basically the Scandinavian model. Have never had a transfer blocked in the last decade. Good thing we don't have US government here in Europe, so we don't need to adopt the US scepticism of government.
Are you serious? Lime 50% of EU states are about to elect facist governments. Italy already has.
This has been the law in the US for a long time already. Not exactly illegal, but any cash transaction $10k+ legally requires federal documentation. This gets at what people misunderstand about crime and money laundering. Money laundering=paying taxes. Once you are making real money "under the table", you have to find ways to pay taxes, if you want to be able to buy cars/houses/etc
In the US the cops just steal it. Then in order to get it back, you have to go to court and prove that your money didn't commit a crime. Yes, really.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States
Margarita machines dont pay for themselves.
Yea i love when most police raids for suspicion of drug dealing end up being something along the lines of "we broke into this person house and he had one half smoked joint and 10,000 dollars in bills" which of course means that the money is now proof of crime and belongs to the cops now
I've never paid for anything that expensive in cash. To those opposing the idea: Have you? Did it need to be cash?
Bought my first car using cash, this was the early 2000s - and was (at the time) the most available way for a teenager to transfer funds to another person.
I will say, my heartbeat walking out of the bank and to my mum waiting in her car would have set a world record high.
When i was like 18, my coworker who was maybe 23 told me that he's gonna buy a car, and if i would go to the bank with him, because he felt weird walking around with 20k in cash. I nodded, so we went to the bank. Like a bank robber, he nervously talked to the bank teller mumbling: i need 20 thousand chfr. She was like: sorry what? And he looked around and mumbled again 20 thousand. And he needs big bills. As big as possible. She probably thought he was disabled or something and started to smile and said: i'll get you the biggest bills i can find, and came back with a 20 dollar bill. He snatched it and walked out in embarrassment. I had to laugh so goddamn hard.
Stupid law
Money can be changed into something that isn't money, yet functionally works the same for a single transaction, very easily
Especially if you're already committing crimes
This is as effective as DRM; it hurts law abiding citizens more than those breaking the law
No that's not stupid. It adds a layer of friction for criminals. In Italy where this law already applies for 5000β¬ (before it was 2000) it helps reduce black market.
Source: I used to be paid in cash (illegally) and it was a pain in the ass to do anything so now I get paid lawfully and my boss pays taxes
No thatβs not stupid. It adds a layer of friction for criminals.
True criminals do not care. Mafia do not write invoices to sell/buy drugs or to pay a killer.
Source: I used to be paid in cash (illegally) and it was a pain in the ass to do anything so now I get paid lawfully and my boss pays taxes
Then the problem was not that your boss was paying you in cash but that he had the possibility to pay you under the table without (basically) any kind of risk.
Money can be changed into something that isn't money, yet functionally works the same for a single transaction, very easily
Shops usually don't accept "something that isn't money" as payment.
This measure aims to make it harder for criminals to wash their illicit money using legit businesses.
Its not supposed to stop criminals thats just what they say to increase the effusiveness of the surveillance state.
As if rich scum haven't been paying each other with "gifts" that were awfully money-shaped already. This fixes nothing.
how is this supposed to be enforced?
They will not let businesses invoice large cash amounts.
How the hell am I supposed to get my drug deals done now?
Crypto, as scamy as the crypto scene is anonymous payments are what Monero was made for. People should use Monero, fuck ur government spying
Aaaand another little slice of personal freedom gone...
I never met anyone who paid β¬10,000 in cash. Like, how is someone able to carry all that much? In a suitcase? You'd also be a walking target for robbery if someone knows you are carrying a suitcase with β¬10,000 in cash. That amount is life changing for most ordinary Europeans. β¬10,000 is not going to make someone rich, but it's going towards savings for someone financially wise enough.
Edit: people are talking about it's possible to carry β¬10,000 cash by saying they have β¬100 notes. But I thought they are out circulation precisely because of money laundering and criminal transactions?
A couple of years ago i sold a car and was paid in cash (12.000 β¬), its not so much a problem to carry around... i mean, its only 24 500,- β¬ notes or 60 200,- β¬ notes, you surely don't need a suitcase, an envelope is absolutely enough.
Quite a few years ago I was in 'job learning' course from school in a local bank. They needed to move money to another bank across the street and there was some system update or interruption or whatever going on so it had to be done in cash. I don't remember the exact sum, but it was something like 300kβ¬. The lady who was assigned as my director took money (and counted it, made necessary paperwork and all the jazz) from the vault and put it in her purse in a bag meant for money transfers. It was roughly a book sized stack of bills which we then walked the short distance and the receiving bank made necessary paperwork on their side. I was there only because their insurance required there's two persons doing the delivery.
Also "a few" years ago I bought a car and the older gentleman who was selling insisted that I pay in cash. 7000β¬ can easily fit in your wallet.
10,000 is just not what it used to be. For example if you are renting a house where you need a damage deposit and to pre-pay the first and last monthβs rent. That easily blows past 10,000 these days for a completely normal transaction. Same for most used vehicles.
20 β¬500 notes
50 β¬200 notes
100 β¬100 notes
No need to break out the luggage.
This comment is poorly informed. Private car sales use cash a lot. 10,000 isnt suitcase worthy. Any volume of cash of a target. β¬10,000 being life changing is suspect, in what regard is it specific to europeans.
I don't know how I feel about this. Generally though I think I'm against it even if rich people do abuse whatever. What am I saying I'm definitely against this. They chose to use money, they chose to allow things to cost a lot more than 10,000 pounds but we can't pay with more than 10,000 pounds? Why? So we go through their Banks and bullshit. It's about control I presume.
Under the new rules, businesses and professionals selling goods or services will no longer be allowed to accept or make cash payments of β¬10,000 or more.
This doesn't apply to private transactions, by the way.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single example of a legitimate legal business that would be done using cash in that amount.
So while there's definitely a danger of the rules being tightened over time, this specific change here doesn't raise my concern too much.
What bothers me more is the utter lack of any effective measure against the true problem in tax fraud β those who do it at a truly large scale still get away without any punishment or control, and in fact sit at the table when the tax laws are written.
Good. In Italy we have a 5,000 limit and it indeed prevents some illegal payments.
The limit only make some illegal payments (like under the table payments) only a little more inconvenient, it does not prevent them.
Bad, because running all payments through banking system is a systemic safety risk.
If banking gets paralyzed like in Greece during debt crisis you'll be fucked.
Another step towards eliminating anonymous payments and removing citizens' ability to exist without being constantly tracked by the state.
Interestingly (or not), we also mostly (or is it totally?) got rid of 500 β¬ bills because they made moving around large amounts of cash too easy.
Inflation will do the rest.