Cool how the dems always wait until the last minute to ineffectively attempt the bare minimum.
this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2024
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It's not even the bare minimum, it's dangerous. Every idiot, every American knows it applies to the total, it's never been a realistic conversation. Also, I doubt more than 15% could even tell you who he was let alone when FDR served. The illiteracy rate in America is getting really disturbing.
Him doing this is just opening the conversation, it makes it seem like he agrees that it currently reads as non consecutive... when no person acting in good faith would agree with agree with that.
Democrats love blue balls
God fucking dammit. When you start a process like this it gives credence that the ammendment doesn't prohibit non-consecutive terms.
Fuck! This asshole is giving ammunition to Trump.
Yeah, I agree. This was a bad idea. The text is quite clear that no person shall be elected to be President more than twice. Simply introducing it as a "clarification" will give the impression that clarification is necessary. It's not.
Republicans can't do anything to fix this (legally) other than to amend the Constitution. Let's see what illegal shit they try, though.
Republicans can’t do anything to fix this (legally) other than to amend the Constitution. Let’s see what illegal shit they try, though.
Who's gonna do anything about it? It's not illegal if the people making an enforcing the laws say it's legal.
The States can and will. Recall that there were a few states that tried to take Trump off the ballot this time around, that case went to the Supreme Court, which ruled that states couldn't use that specific clause to keep Trump off the ballot. Furthermore, that decision was unanimous, although the Liberal judges released their own opinion saying that they disagreed with some aspects of the decision.
It will be a lot harder for even this court to weasel it's way around the language in that amendment. And it will get there quickly. The minute Trump announces another candidacy every state that is not totally MAGA will immediately refuse to put him on any ballot due to his ineligibility.
The States can and will. Recall that there were a few states that tried to take Trump off the ballot this time around, that case went to the Supreme Court, which ruled that states couldn’t use that specific clause to keep Trump off the ballot. Furthermore, that decision was unanimous, although the Liberal judges released their own opinion saying that they disagreed with some aspects of the decision.
So by your own admission, the states already tried to remove Trump under the 14th amendment, and the Supreme Court said that the 14th amendment was unenforceable because reasons. The Supreme Court that also said Trump can do whatever he damn well wants in office and can't even be questioned about it, much less prosecuted for it. But when they use virtually the same logic to say the 22nd amendment doesn't matter either, you think that's where a Supreme Court 1/3 appointed by Trump himself is going to draw the line?
Oh, you sweet, sweet summer child.
The states already tried to keep Trump off the ballot via the 14th amendment. The Supreme Court took a giant shit on it. And the states did fucking nothing. And you think things are going to change when they just use the same playbook with the 22nd?
It will be a lot harder for even this court to weasel it’s way around the language in that amendment.
What makes you think the court has to weasel their way around anything? They've got full control. The only reasoning they need is "Because fuck you that's why". People didn't do shit about it when Roe was struck down. People didn't do shit when the SC said Trump is all but a king. People ain't gonna do shit if the SC says "fuck the 22nd, let him run anyway."
If you think that the American public gives half a shit, I'll simply reply by gesturing broadly at the results of the 2024 election.
And it will get there quickly. The minute Trump announces another candidacy every state that is not totally MAGA will immediately refuse to put him on any ballot due to his ineligibility.
And the Supreme Court will tell them to sit down and shut up, and they'll comply just like they did last time. And if they try to ignore the court, good luck getting the population to consider the election legitimate.
The 14th amendment approach did have some legitimate issues with it. If it worked, then I am convinced Abbott would have invoked some bullshit "Biden is creating an invasion at the border" excuse to remove Biden from the ballot. That's why the decision ended up unanimous.
The 22nd amendment's text is a whole lot clearer, and far less subject to interpretation. I can see a State saying "I don't even need the Supreme Court to weigh in on this one". And if it does come up with some tortured logic, I can see a State telling it to go to hell, because the one thing it can't ~~focus~~ do is rewrite the Constitution.
And if it does come up with some tortured logic, I can see a State telling it to go to hell, because the one thing it can’t focus rewrite the Constitution.
And this is where your logic falls apart. This would have been a correct statement on or before November 4, 2024. It is no longer correct. We are in TrumpWorld now. The rules as we knew them no longer matter, and can and will either be rewritten or outright ignored.
Trump doesn't have to rewrite the Constitution. He just has to use the same logic with the 22nd amendment as they did with the 14th: It is simply too vague and not enforceable. If Trump says that, and Congress passes a bill saying that, and the Supreme Court says "Yeah, fuck the 22nd amendment.", and a bunch of MAGA state governments say that, then guess what?
I mean sure, some states could go their own way and not put him on the ballot. But (a), good luck getting people to consider that election legitimate, (b) They probably wouldn't be enough to swing the election anyway, and (c) the MAGA congress could just as easily set those states aside entirely because reasons.
Thinking that a man is going to play by the rules when he's using the rulebook as toilet paper while being cheered on by voters is probably not going to go the way you think it will. Especially when that man has already seized enough power to rewrite the rulebook at will anyway.
Either they ignore the Amendment or they don't. Even if SCOTUS unanimously said it's not possible Donald J Trump doesn't take "No" for an answer. His entire take on being President is, "It's not illegal if nobody stops you from doing it."
Laws dont matter anymore because they wont be enforced. We're flatly ignoring the leahy laws now and no one bats an eye because almost every congressman on both sides and the judiciary have been bought by AIPAC. They will continue to buy and own them all from here on out, so the president is never going to be impeached, and we cant sue the president-- thats a duty of congress. So its over. We are living in a banana republic. It was sold to the highest bidder and it'll stay bought.
There's a similar sort of tussle going on in Canada. In Canada abortion is a constitutionally guaranteed freedom but given the shit going on in the US there have been discussions about passing a law to absolutely for sure double enshrine it. However the opinion from Supreme Court jurists among others is that passing a law guaranteeing it may weaken the protections because it'd move it from a universally recognized freedom to a law someone could reverse if the wrong party took power.
It's a really interesting discussion up here because that was essentially the state of affairs in the US (though Roe was a weaker ruling than our understanding up here) until yall had an activist Court that said "Fuck it" and acted illegally. So the question is "is it more likely for us to get chucklefucks in the legislature or the court, and if we're really clear about not passing a law because it's inherently accepted as a human right can we prevent it."
We do have a significant chucklefuck crowd in Canada (thanks American cultural export) so it's a concern but abortion access is extremely popular up here so it hasn't been turned into a wedge issue. (We do have stupid bullshit over trans rights, the environment, and indigenous sovereignty, though - in Canada all the scary stereotypes America has against black people and Mexicans are instead directed at Native Americans).
This isn't about needing clarification though. Like you said, clarification is not necessary. This move is about being able to wave this amendment around in front of everyone, and publicly force Republicans to agree on its meaning, ahead of Trump ignoring it.
I don't see this as being completely a bad move but I am not a legal expert. I also won't call it a good move, but it will force the hand of the Republicans who wish to ignore this law into publicly stating as much. This would have been a lot more effective earlier though I think.
God fucking dammit. When you start a process like this it gives credence that the ammendment doesn’t prohibit non-consecutive terms.
Fuck! This asshole is giving ammunition to Trump.
Actually, no.
This process started when the Supreme Court essentially ruled that the 14th amendment to the Constitution was unenforceable, allowing Trump to even run in the first place. Once you say that amendments can just be hand-waved away, then the Constitution itself stops being the Supreme law of the land, and just becomes a really old piece of paper with guidelines that can be ignored if they become inconvenient. The exact same rationale used to discard the 14th amendment could just as easily be used to discard the 22nd amendment. Or the 19th. Or the 13th. Or the first 10. Just write it off as "too vague and incompatible with modern society to be enforceable" and voila.
In all fairness, it does specify that no person can be elected to president more than twice, full stop. Unfortunately, it does leave open two loopholes. 1) He, while president, manages to coerce the skipping or elimination of elections and he just gets another term without an election. 2) He runs as VP for another person (no limit there) and assume the presidency when their lacky dies, retires, etc. Or he just uses them as a puppet from the VP spot.
Doesn't being ineligible for president also make you ineligible for VP?
The 22nd amendment says that they can't be elected to "The office of President". No mention in the amendment of the Vice Presidency. And the term limit definitely doesn't apply to one's terms as VPs if they later become President. Else George HW Bush and Biden couldn't gave run for president after their two terms as VP each. No reason to think it applies in reverse, that presidential terms count against VP terms. Obviously, it could be argued that VPs are in the line of succession for President, and are thus ineligible after they served two terms, but it would have to be argued. It's not explicit. Also I doubt it would work because that would also exclude them from every single other role in the line of succession. That seems overbroad.
If Trump tried to run for a third term, could Obama run against him?
If Trump tried to run for a third term, could Obama run against him?
No. Obama is term-limited. Trump is not, because (choose one or more):
- Trump did not serve two consecutive terms
- Obama is black
- Trump can't count to two anyway.
- The rules don't apply to Republican candidates
- Just like SCOTUS did with the 14th amendment, rules of the constitution can simply be hand-waved aside when they become politically inconvenient.
- They have control of everything. What the fuck is anyone gonna do about it?
One more I've heard from the MAGAs in my workplace: Trump did not actually get a first term because the Democrats obstructed him so 2024 is actually his first term
Then I guess Obama gets two more terms, because Republicans obstructed him.
No, none of this is based on logic. It's just words, like LLM words; it means nothing.
Have you seen Frieren? Demons only talk to confuse. They have no moral values. They appeal to ours only to not be killed, but it's a ruse every time.
The same is true for fascists. None of this makes sense. It only serves to confuse, delay, obstruct, until they get what they want. They string together words so that our brains go brrr, but they're infants babbling sounds. Stop talking to them as equals, they don't see you as one. They see us as prey, as slaves, as livestock. And most don't realize they're livestock, too.
I get you were being sarcastic. I'm just mad.
Grover Cleveland's corpse could run, though
Would still vote for it over Trump.
Weekend at Grover's. I'd watch that.
You know how I know I'm too stoned right now? I can actually picture this being a sitcom with Drew Carey starring as Grover Cleveland. I'm telling you, there's something there, and I'm going to go ponder what that is over some more weed.
I will go get high enough to forget why we discussed it, and to have an appropriately ridiculous response to your sitcom pitch.
You laugh, but remember that at one time, someone walked into a boardroom and actually said " So, I've got this idea for a new cartoon. It's about a sponge. And it lives in a pineapple......", and is now a millionaire many, many times over.
So who do we get to play the two dudes that have to Weekend at Bernies Drew Carey around the oval office all day?
I've been watching slow horses with Gary oldman and he's hilarious. I also love patton oswalt. Not sure if either of those are right for the Andrew McCarthy or the other guy roles, but maybe we could find parts for them?
We already tried running a corpse at the start of this campaign and it had too low of approval ratings to win.
Yes, he could. But, that would require real elections, which is a pipe dream now
We shouldn't even entertain the idea of third terms. It's starts normalizing it.
We shouldn't have normalized letting traitors run for office. But SCOTUS deemed the constitution "unenforceable".
We need to normalize the constitution. But people acted like the 14th amendment was "novel" and now there's precedence.
If they are playing the non-consecutive game...
If we are breaking it to that point, then he'll just run again and kill any one who runs against him. Officially of course. That way it can't be a crime. Or he could just retire like sulla did after dealing the mortal blow to the republic. Will it really matter at that point if everything is "fixed"
I'm honestly not too worried about this. Trump can already effectively run for a third or any number of terms. The Republican party is now a full-on cult of personality around Trump. To stay in power, all Trump has to do is have one of his fail sons run as his successor. During the campaign, have the actual candidate largely in the background, and make it clear to all voters that his son will be running as a formality only; Trump will remain the real power behind the throne. And, once elected, Trump can continue to maintain power through the power he personally has on the party. If his son ever goes against his wishes, Trump can get on TV and immediately turn the base against the nominal president. His son may formally be president, but he's not getting anything past MAGA congressmembers without the blessing of Trump himself.
I will vomit everyday forever if Ivanka turns out to be our first female president.
I doubt he'll be anything other than dead or a drooling vegetable in 4 years.
From a purely physiological and health-related standpoint, is anyone actually afraid that this may happen? Duder is like 80 and lives on fast food and uppers as far as I know.
Kings and tyrants always have successors.
the people are left to pay the bill when a fight for succession happens.
I would ask everyone to imagine the US being like the post Soviet collapse. ammo out the ass but not a crumb to eat.
who am I kidding though, the youngins weren't alive then. I doubt they even remember Kosovo.
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Fat fuck will be long dead.
We need a new Constitutional Congress.