Maybe stop putting in huge electronic systems I don't want
this post was submitted on 13 Apr 2026
336 points (98.8% liked)
Fuck Cars
15577 readers
1595 users here now
A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!
Rules
1. Be Civil
You may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.
2. No hate speech
Don't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.
3. Don't harass people
Don't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.
4. Stay on topic
This community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.
5. No reposts
Do not repost content that has already been posted in this community.
Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.
Posting Guidelines
In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:
- [meta] for discussions/suggestions about this community itself
- [article] for news articles
- [blog] for any blog-style content
- [video] for video resources
- [academic] for academic studies and sources
- [discussion] for text post questions, rants, and/or discussions
- [meme] for memes
- [image] for any non-meme images
- [misc] for anything that doesn’t fall cleanly into any of the other categories
Recommended communities:
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Honestly, there have only been a few improvements to vehicles since the year 1990 that I actually appreciate
Tire pressure monitoring becoming standard was peak car.
At no point have cars ever been "inexpensive", they've just been more or less obtainable. Big difference, a car has always been a very large purchase.
Althought this is true, it is also true the industry has shifted to models of cars with higher profit margins, mainly SUVs and light trucks, which follow a loophole claiming they aren't "passenger vehicles".
The CAFE fleet loophole, yeah. It's less of a loophole at this point, more of an 8-lane interstate bypass. Cars have always been expensive items that not everyone can afford but you're right, the margins between wages and car costs are wider today.
Not only that but its also what you get in a car these days. 50 years ago you had pretty much a drive train, seats, and radios. Now even base models come with touch screens, sensors, cameras, automatic doors etc. Some of which are nice features sure, but they still come at an additional cost.
wow, they turned it into a please for more free trade...
The average transaction price for a new car now sits around $50,000.
I could ride a NYC subway or bus 16,666 times for that, assuming I never do more than 12 rides in a week to trip the "rest of the week is free" condition.
"Make cars cheaper" is a stupid solution that won't scale well. Cars do tremendous damage to the environment and our society. But I expect everyone subscribed to "Fuck Cars" already knows that.
You can get a decent older, nothing fancy, riding horse for ~$3k and pay about $11k/yr for upkeep, significantly less if you’ve got space for them. Plus, ride the same route to and from the bar and they’ll memorize it- your own personal designated driver who like tips in apples!
In some places you can still get a dui on a horse
Technically one could in my state, but there was a case (granted, 20+ yrs ago) where an old timer got it tossed out because despite being drunk af, he wasn’t on the road but off on the shoulder and there were enough witnesses and history to testify the horse consistently took him home without posing a danger to road safety. A lot of factors went in to that win, old timer, small town, everybody knew him, judge didn’t see him as an issue, so I wouldn’t suggest it for everybody in every situation.
That shoulder point seems like a moot point IMO. If I'm drunk in my car, i still can't drive on the shoulder. It is also common for people on off road vehicles like atvs and snow mobiles to get DUIs. This 100% sounds like a small town grace thing.
I would guess the case could be made that any motorized vehicle doesn’t operate without a human actively making the choices about what the vehicle does, whereas a horse can take direction but will still “operate” even if the rider is blackout drunk. If you’re not on the road and not “operating” the horse, I think you could attempt to argue down to public intoxication or some other nuisance charge, especially if the horse was out of traffic and could be shown to reliably get you home without causing a disturbance. I’ll be interested to see how the courts deal with DUIs when a self-driving car is involved.
$11k/yr for upkeep
That's a lot. What's included?
A horse mostly, they are expensive to keep around nowadays.
Yes, but what's included for the horse? Food? Vet? Horseshoes? Grooming? Insurance? Apples? Do I still have to visit it daily or for $11/k there's someone there taking care of him when I'm away?
Food, ferrier, routine healthcare, housing. Your biggest cost is housing, and the cost of that varies wildly by how fancy you want to get with it. I went with the low-mid end of decent amenities, similar to dog boarding. The horse has protection from elements, a bit of human interaction, space to be outside. I did not include insurance. However, ime, horse vets can be drastically less expensive than small animal vets for similar procedures. I have always gotten the impression this is because dog/cat healthcare is a much bigger industry and like human healthcare it jacks up the price because it can. I also didn’t include tack, but that’s also one of those things where the cost is dependent on how fancy one wants to get with it.
load more comments
(2 replies)
"inexpensive car" is a myth that keep getting repeated. Car can seems cheap up front but it could inflate in cost in the long run due to fuel and maintenance. Not to mention it's a deprecating asset, doing serious damage to the environment in the long run, dangerous machine that often misused.
"but my fuel is cheap!"
Yeah? Because it's subsidised, using your tax that's better used for something else.
load more comments
(1 replies)
I think realistically this is the only way public transport will start to be forced past the car companies that lobby against it. Once the actual labour starts getting hit and affected, they'll have no choice.
American downtowns used to be sweet.
Most big cities had extensive electric trolleys you could hop on and off of for free. Walkable cities with decent public transportation that didn't pollute the air!
And we replaced that so we could have a bunch of shitty cars burning leaded gasoline for decades....
Really explains the boomers and silent generation.... And hell, Gen X probably grew up with some that sweet leaded gas fumes, and lead paint. And there's still extensive lead pipes serving water.
There’s an episode of the Little Rascals where the kid wants to be a street car conductor. Not much demand for that job today. Boy, do they pick up the nickels!
For a handful of years, we'd keep lead additive in the truck. Every fill up we'd add lead to the tank. GenX with just a bit of lead in the brain.
Exactly. Lead fuel additives are still sold...
Race cars tend to use them. Explains NASCAR....
load more comments
(4 replies)
"Now"??
"Back then the amount remained the same" > "Now the amount is growing". But i get your point and agree cars were always expensive.
It makes sense if you define car ownership in ~2024 as "affordable"
In 1979, when my parents bought a new Dodge Aspen wagon, its price of $5,000 was around the median car price, at about ⅓ of the median annual wage. That's about $22,000 in 2026 dollars, which is about ⅓ of the median annual wage now. But the median car price is up to $50,000.
load more comments
(2 replies)
Presumeably the article author has been insulated and didn't realize that other people outside of their tax bracket exist.
I hear "the white imperial core" thrown around a lot.
load more comments
(1 replies)
NYTrash is the worst imperial garbage.
Car dependency has always been an unsustainable grift benefiting the most privileged at the cost of the planetary destruction.
Don't expect these liars to have a clue about this.
A reminder that since it's original establishment, through multiple changes of ownership, the mission of the NYTimes has always been to advocate for liberal centrism against any and all alternatives. Despite momentarily appearances to the contrary, NYTimes has never been and will never be a 'progressive' paper.
This country only works if gas is cheap...and it's already too late for that. Oopsie daisy I guess.
Or electricity, if we weren’t afraid of change. But even with some of the highest electricity prices in the country, I pay about half what i would for gas
load more comments
(6 replies)
Well well well if it isn't the consequences of our own stupid actions
Car companies passed a bunch of laws prohibiting competition and alternatives and got trillions in subsidies. Now they're welfare programs for the nations dumbest and most pampered CEOs.
The Happy Motoring Society was never sustainable
The solution is to sells homes to companies so they can be closer to the rest of the homes....some homes will become Walmarts, others could be made into universities or schools or hardware stores or software companies. Blah....none of this we have here in Kenmore WA for example... You can walk to the nearest store during spring. In summer you might die from a heatstroke, in winter you might become a Popsicle before even getting to the store located downhill and to the east along the top of lake Washington. Its no joke. There are no homeless people looking thru my trash ever...because they literally can't physically make it. There's no point in collecting enough aluminum cans to eat if you need to eat more than that to collect the cans.
Its a dumb place, I didn't choose to be here but it was the place I could afford that was closest to work. Hint hint...its nice that the city is charging us like $1000 bucks extra this year to add and repair sidewalks. Continue! Add a bus station nearby and allow people to have business from home...which eventually could become a workplace. Go from a bunch of houses to a variety of buildings. I can dream. I just need to jump off my high horse.
Now people are using electric bikes and scooters.
What really sux is oftentimes the more car friendly areas are expensive and the people living their drive cars because they have the money to buy there and have a car. I don't get why they don't live out further if they like cars so much but it is what it is.
i'm so grateful to live in a city with decent public transit (seattle)
none of my social life adventures would be possible without it
highly recommend cities if you're able to. they're always so much nicer to live in than suburbs or rural shitholes
load more comments
(1 replies)
view more: next ›