Ask Lemmy

When I was a young woman and alienated teen, the gay bars were so welcoming and safe, it was a safe place for some of us who didn't fit at the keg parties and proms and shit. We didn't bother anyone just danced, drank, enjoyed ourselves. Made friends, watched drag shows. It probably helped me stay sane back then. Not to say that was anybody else's responsibility, just that that's what it did. They liked having stylish punky girls there, were always welcoming.

Of course that was decades ago and we were not like "tourists" there, if that makes sense, there was more overlap between subcultures and back then at least the gay guys were a subculture. We stayed close to some of those guys, but over half our older gay friends died of AIDS, including two who killed themselves when they got HIV.

Where I live there used to be two gay bars. One of them held events for queer people, things like a queer adult prom for people who weren't able to go as themselves when they were teens. Or drag shows of course because that's such a fundamental part of the community. These weren't events only for queer people but they were primarily for queer people. The thing is they became more and more overrun by straight folks, including my parents and a bunch of their straight friends. So one day they changed ownership and stopped being a gay bar. Now my town only has one gay bar.

That shit fucking sucks. Come to a gay bar if you want, but you gotta understand that it's not for you. It's for queer people to have a space to be themselves without straight people judging them in some way. We use it to meet people like us, to have fun with people we can feel safe around. If you don't respect that then stay the fuck away.

We don't care. We know why they come and we welcome them. Bring your straight male friends. Bring your bachelorette parties - they can become annoying but we know what happens when you finally feel safe and uninhibited. And at the same time, there are economic rules at play. We go to find other gay men for various objectives. If it becomes difficult to find them or if the market feels saturated with women and straight men, we will go to a different space where there are fewer women and straight men and we will feel some amount of annoyance that we had to do so.

Its all good.

Straight women visiting gay bars are fine. Bachelorette parties using gay bars as props are not fine

The dance bar in my old city used to get overrun by bachelorette parties, women disrespecting the space and its purpose, disrespecting patrons, etc. So they made a rule that you couldn't do bachelorette parties there anymore. Ultimately it was a good rule. I have nothing against a girl and her friend going out for a drink at a gay bar. I do have issues with them getting blitzed and walking around, trying to hang on the half naked guys, trying to be the "star" of the night, that kind of thing.

Unsure. I'd say "intruders". If I go to a gay place, it's not to become a token to a straight person, be they men or women, it's to get the f away from them. My safe place is not a zoo for straights who can find us cute or exotic, it's a place where I can finally just be me. Or, they need to make sure that we are welcome in straight bars as well. Else, just GTFO of my safe place.

If they go to a gay bar for safety, then it's another story.

To sum it up : "Let's go to the gay bar for fun" = GTFO.

"Let's go to the gay bar because I'm afraid straight men will harrass/assault/rape me" = "Come in".

"Let's go to the gay bar because I'm questionning my sexual orientation and would like to meet gay women" = "Come in".

I once got told off for being at a gay bar by an older lesbian couple. They said "our kind didn't belong there" after they saw me dancing with my (just-out-of-the-closet) male friend and I guess assumed we were straight 🤷.

I understand they get annoyed when straight people just come to their parties because it is fun, because it is supposed to be a safe space and a space where you go to look for other gay people. At the same time, I wanted to be supportive of my friend and continue going to parties together.

I do think of gay bars as spaces SAFE for gay people, not exclusive to us.

My band of mostly straight men (like a dozen years ago) played a set at a gay bar every Thursday night for a year or so. It was great fun first of all, and maybe 15-20% of the people there were straight or mostly straight but just hung out there.

It felt really fun and welcoming to all, and was less about gay people finding other gay people than it was about no one caring much about your gender identity or sexuality (unless it was maybe to take you home, idk).

That's not to say it's one size fits all, probably depends on the bar and the area a fair bit

I’m a straight dude. IMO, I should be just as welcome at a “gay” bar as “gay” folks are at any other place. I’ve been chatted up respectfully by dudes in gay bars and had a “twink” try to shove his hands down my pants (and a few experiences between). The former is how people of all genders should be treated at all bars. Sure, it’s more likely that you’ll get chatted by a dude at a gay bar, but believe it or not, the last guy that asked me out was at a decidedly NOT gay bar.

...thirty years ago "fag hag" was a common pejorative for groupies; not sure whether that's still the case...

What's my opinion about women going somewhere where they know they'll be safe, you mean?

I don’t care?

As someone in a city with a population of ~250k and only one gay bar: Hard dislike, if you aren't in company of actual queer folks (or do outnumber them massively). I get that especially straight women see it as a safe place - but where there are straight women straight men usually follow - and at some point they outnumber us. And now I do not feel welcome at the only gay bar in town - it is most of the time essentially a bar with some queer decoration. Some gay bars in the next bigger city do not allow women for this exact reason. Others enforce it via kinky attire dress code (e.g. leather, rubber, lycra, puppys, etc.) - but that can be anhoying when you don't have a specific kink for that dress code and this may not have the required outfit.

I don't care, as long as they don't bring their BS with them and try to hit on gay men. I am thinking of the typical "instagram women".

They're free to do whatever they want. Besides, why would they care about my opinion?

I think: actual straight people don't exist, only self hating people who cling desperately to an imagined blood tribe.

That being said, don't proselytize your ways in other people's places of love that do you no harm. I think of it like a church: you do you, I'll do these people :)