this post was submitted on 03 May 2026
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Work Reform

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[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 65 points 4 days ago

The money is always there. I spent a decade at a job where they constantly told us there was no money for pay raises, constant pressure on employees to cut or manage costs, shitty schedules, etc.

Then there was a hiring boom. They were throwing money at recruits like crazy. Better pay. Huge signing bonuses that were more than I made in an entire year.

The money is always there. It’s for the shareholders. Not you.

[–] owenfromcanada@lemmy.ca 84 points 4 days ago (1 children)

the other can disappear tomorrow and nothing would change

Not true. People would be living in less fear, and the world would be a far better place.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 36 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I've heard ICE described as a militia of the unemployed mobilized to declare war on the working class

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[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 53 points 4 days ago (4 children)

If anybody's tempted by those numbers, remember Trump's track record of not paying people.

[–] JennaR8r@lemmy.dbzer0.com 30 points 4 days ago (3 children)

It's true. The ice employees have not been getting paid. And the bonus is a joke with so many impossible strings attached.

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[–] testfactor@lemmy.world 49 points 4 days ago (7 children)

Not that I disagree with the point generally, but there is a difference of scale here.

There are around 22k ICE agents. At 150k, that's 3.3b for the first year, and then 2.2b in following years.

There are around 4m teachers in the US. To raise them all from 55k to the 100k that ICE agents make (ignoring the hiring bonus) would cost 180b/yr. Two orders of magnitude greater.

I'm not saying it's not worth it. I'm also not saying that ICE agents are good. I'm also not saying this disparity is justified.

I'm simply saying that the analogy, as given, implies that if we had the money to pay ICE agents 100k+bonuses, then we should have just paid the teachers that much instead. But that's not how the math works. And just because the argument feels good emotionally doesn't mean it's accurate. And the truth shouldn't need a lie to drive it forward. There are plenty of good, factual arguments to make, and this isn't one of them.

[–] teegus@sh.itjust.works 43 points 4 days ago (6 children)

To be fair, there are plenty other jobs thst could be cut, like CEO of Amazon

[–] Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 20 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Every corporate CEO should be cut... with a guillotine

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[–] artifex@piefed.social 23 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

This is true, but the scale goes both ways. For every dollar of public education you get $1+X out. This has been true for the vast majority of public education programs for at least the past half century. So public education is literally a good investment. I’ve never gone looking for data on ICE, but I’d bet good money that for every dollar in there’s a net loss.

[–] Vegan_Joe@piefed.world 13 points 4 days ago

In order for that argument to be valid, the country would have to be run as if it could see beyond the next financial quarter.

It is currently being run as if they are selling off parts of a stolen vehicle for scrap money, and maxing out all the cards they found inside.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 15 points 4 days ago (2 children)

There are around 22k ICE agents.

They increased payroll by 120% in the last year alone. This does not include private contracts for construction and maintenance of new detainment facilities, coming out of the $45B earmarked by Congress last year.

There are around 4m teachers in the US. To raise them all from 55k to the 100k that ICE agents make (ignoring the hiring bonus) would cost 180b/yr.

$45B -> $180B is not two orders of magnitude.

if we had the money to pay ICE agents 100k+bonuses, then we should have just paid the teachers that much instead

Pete Hegseth is currently asking Congress for an extra $200B in Pentagon spending, after increasing their budget $71B this year already.

We clearly don't have a problem with finding more money.

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[–] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Also, unless I'm mistaken, teachers aren't paid from the federal budget. I believe that the vast majority of public school funding, including teacher salaries, come from local taxes. In fact, I believe school funding is paid mostly from local property taxes. There isn't one, national public school system that's centrally funded. It's decentralized and can vary significantly from one district to another.

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[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

This, and also teachers disproportionately consider their job too important to do to quit completely when mistreated.

Which the dystopian profit machine takes advantage of to mistreat the shit out of some of the most important and laudable people in the world.

[–] khannie@lemmy.world 17 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

I have a friend in Kentucky. Lovely lady. We've known each other about twenty years now. Long time ago she was a waitress earning decent money but wanted to be a teacher. It was going to be a financial hit (the fuck?) but I encouraged her to follow her dream.

Long story short she lasted two years before being crushed by the machine and quitting.

[–] BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago

Yeah, I was a year or so into a job that paid close to 2x when I got my degree and couldn't justify it. It wasn't a great or high paying job either.

I really looked into it though and there are a lot of systemic problems with public schools. I didn't think I'd have the stomach for it. Plus you need another six figure degree to pay for with less money.

Now to clarify, where I live this is because of race. The government has absolutely failed the African American population. The drug war and public schools were all that was really required.

When they integrated the schools, they just abandoned the South and let local and state government handle it. This is the Jim Crow government that requires the national guard to integrate schools.

Now you've got a separate but far superior education. That's kinda been in place for a couple of generations.

[–] voidsignal@lemmy.world 29 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

they are terrified of everything. there's nothing more affraid in life than a racist right wing fascist turd.

[–] Zink@programming.dev 15 points 4 days ago

Fear is definitely a reason they love to drive 3-ton trucks to rugged wild places like the office and McDonald's. I have heard my fair share of rednecks call ANY small or normal sized car a "death trap" or "tin can," or comment something like "I'd hate to have somebody crash into me in that thing!"

"Winning" in a crash is a big unspoken feature that drives vehicle choice for a lot of paranoid/scared iamverybadass turds. Around me it's a pretty varied mix of trucks, truck-based SUV barges, and luxury SUVs.

[–] olenkoVD@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 4 days ago (1 children)

This holds true for almost any "modern" and "civilized" country, not just for the United States.

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[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 13 points 4 days ago

Read the books

Kinda hard when the education system fails to teach you how to read.

[–] Ozymati@lemmy.nz 14 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Join ice. Take the money. Be incompetent. Profit

[–] Rooster326@programming.dev 23 points 4 days ago

, Pray they don't come for you when the curtain falls.

[–] shneancy@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago

i'd rather not risk being sent somewhere and having the guy next to me shoot and kill innocent people. that kind of shit would scar me for life

[–] BillCheddar@lemmy.world 13 points 4 days ago

You could sign up and gum up the fucking works from the inside.

[–] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago

power always seems to instill a firm belief in one's own immortality.

[–] VeryInterestingTable@jlai.lu 11 points 4 days ago (2 children)

In developed countries teachers unionize. They have fair wages, ample benefits, lots of vacation. Their job is still very hard but they somehow feel more valued.

[–] imsufferableninja@sh.itjust.works 8 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Are you not aware of the teachers union in the US?

[–] reddig33@lemmy.world 10 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Teachers unionize, but they can’t strike in all states. In states like Texas, it’s illegal. No collective bargaining power.

https://www.tcta.org/legal-updates/what-happens-if-texas-teachers-strike

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[–] VeryInterestingTable@jlai.lu 7 points 4 days ago

No I wasn't, I'm not from the USA.

You are correct, it's not even just one there are several apparently. AFT, UFT, NEA... Honestly I'm confused.

I'm glad the USA does have unions. But there seems to be some roadblocks when I read that some teachers are getting underpaid.

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[–] themaninblack@lemmy.world 10 points 4 days ago (5 children)

I completely agree with the message but had to snicker at “populous”.

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[–] Th4tGuyII@fedia.io 11 points 4 days ago (2 children)

It's always been that way. No money to pay for teachers, no money to pay for universal healthcare, no money to pay for public infrastructure projects...

But will happily burn 100s billions a year on the military and enforcement agencies.

The money is in keeping you down, not helping anyone up.

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[–] unitedwithme@lemmy.today 5 points 4 days ago (8 children)

Well, it's also kind of shitty teacher pay is based on taxpayer contribution! I get it, publicly funded locally vs federally for ICE, also idk how bad ICE pay was before Trump.

[–] partofthevoice@lemmy.zip 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (3 children)

Not to mention the unmentioned difference between number of teachers and number of ICE goons making that salary.

I’m all for teachers making more money. I think pay should be based on need and workload. Teachers rank high in both.

But the argument above is not great argument. It uses something I hate, something I agree with, and makes a false equivalency argument out of both. As inclined as I am to agree, the argument could be a lot better

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[–] Gates9@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 days ago

The wealthy aristocracy that controls both parties needs a paramilitary police force in the streets to quell the inevitable uprisings that will occur once enough Americans realize that the aristocracy has dispensed with economic populism and constitutional order

[–] Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone 7 points 4 days ago (3 children)

What have y’all been reading lately?

I just finished The Dawn of Everything by David Graeber and David Wengrow, which I thought was an incredible read. I would recommend anarchists and communists (and really everyone) read it for a pre-historic and historic view of social organization and freedom. What I thought was one of the more interesting concepts they developed was that in pre-contact North America, individuals had three essential freedoms that we have either lost or had greatly diminished: the right of movement, the right to refuse orders, and the right to create new social realities. (I’m slightly paraphrasing their exact language here, already returned the book to the library) They also go pretty deeply into the impact Indigenous North American societies had on European Enlightenment thought. If any of that interests you, I highly recommend it.

I also just finished The Serviceberry by Robin Wall Kimmerer, which is much shorter but a very lovely examination of gift economies and viewing nature as a gift economy. Solarpunk people, this is probably up your alley.

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