this post was submitted on 12 Mar 2026
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[–] chaotic_ugly@lemmy.zip 8 points 58 minutes ago* (last edited 53 minutes ago) (1 children)

Problem is that the school-to-prison pipeline is a very real thing and kids that are held back or don't finish school are far more likely to end up in prison than those that finish. The way school systems work in most of the US, the differences in outcomes for those with and without a high school diploma are stark and depressing. Finishing is as important as the education itself.

Read: End of Policing - Alex S. Vitale

[–] The_Picard_Maneuver@piefed.world 1 points 4 minutes ago

It seems like there's almost certainly a confounding variable here: the kids who are likely to engage in criminality are also the ones most likely to do poorly in school, skip classes, and be held back.

It's more correlation than causal - for the same reason that we couldn't just give every student straight A's and expect them to have similar outcomes as students who would have otherwise earned straight A's.

Working backwards like that is like trying to help someone lose weight by tweaking their scale to always show a healthy BMI.

[–] Juice@midwest.social 1 points 33 minutes ago

Fixing Education

Doubt

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 8 points 1 hour ago

The purpose of a class is to instill a specific set of knowledge and skills.

The purpose of an assignment is to provide the student with sufficient pressure to study the expected knowledge, and practice the expected skills. The assignment is the pressure to learn; it is not evidence of learning.

To the student who has achieved mastery of that knowledge and skillset prior to completing the class, an assignment has no valid purpose. For such a student, the assignment is busywork, and serves only to distract the student from further study.

If your grading style does not allow for a student to demonstrate mastery and refuse busywork assignments, your grading is a problem.

A student with test scores equal or better than the class average does not deserve to fail your class for having refused assignments.

A student who ritualistically completes all of their homework assignments with excellent marks, but is entirely unable to pass a test on the subject matter, is a student who has failed your class.

[–] Jumi@lemmy.world 4 points 2 hours ago

It generally gotten worse but if I notice my opposite in an argument is most likely a US-American I don't even bother replying to them anymore. The absolute majority of them lack any sense of reading comprehension, the ability to read between the lines or piece context together that it's just a waste of time.

[–] Etterra@discuss.online 5 points 3 hours ago

When I was a kid they just forced you through eventually because no about of education could offset the damage done be breathing in leaded gasoline exhaust.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 15 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

Actual conversation I had with an admin after I graded ab exam with 70/100 after a student made 2 big and 2 small mistakes on an exam

You have to grade her exam 100

But she made a bunch of mistakes

She wants the grading 100 or she'll leave

But then what is the point of grading?

The grading doesn't matter, of they pay, they get each grade 100/100

[–] ReluctantMuskrat@lemmy.world 2 points 30 minutes ago

Private school I guess? I don't understand the "or she'll leave" if not.

So they're paying for fake grades?

[–] glibg10b@lemmy.zip 15 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

So if you didn't study and you're confident you'll get less than 50%, it's better to not show up at all than to attempt the test?

[–] JordanZ@lemmy.world 16 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Had a test graded on a curve in college. Actual score divided by two then add fifty. There were absolutely people that got a fifty. You’d think by dumb luck you’d get at least one right. It was multiple choice.

Meanwhile here in Croatia, some multiple choice tests actually have negative (penalty) points for choosing wrong so you can't just guess.

[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 9 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

I grew up in an era when they didn't pass kids to get rid of them. This is why I had a friend in the 8th grade who had two kids.

[–] fodor@lemmy.zip 9 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

No, sorry, actually teachers have always done that occasionally. It's just that now administrators are forcing it to be done in bulk.

The other thing is grade inflation. A D is passing, right? But many bosses pressure you to give your worst students Bs. And that has definitely gotten worse, too.

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 7 points 10 hours ago

They made Federal funding for education based on the yearly standardized test scores, and graduation rates. One of those is much easier to fudge than the other.

Your IGN score is a 7, you see the game has many flaws. Your IGN scors is also a 7, your game is well made and optimised, with great plot elements and good graphics.

[–] SabinStargem@lemmy.today 13 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (2 children)

Personally, I think a UBI-based society can do education better. Everyone should receive a UBI income by default, but working a job or being educated will replace the UBI with a larger amount of money. Grades for learning boosts income based on how good they are. An S-Grade student gets twice of what UBI brings in. 'Real' jobs start at twice the value of the S-grade student.

This means that students can go to college and get paid for it. While the prospect of the workplace can be alluring in a fiscal sense, a college student can stay in college for as long as they need to git good, to be fulfilled, or simply to pass time while waiting for a decent job opening. They aren't held hostage by debts.

Kids also get paid for their grades. This encourages them to learn, because there are material rewards for doing so.

IMO, fiscal responsibility is a skill that is learned, and in America, we don't teach kids how to handle money. Instead, they get the bulk of their fiscal learning when it is almost time to be kicked out of the nest. Which is dumb.

[–] JennyLaFae@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 10 hours ago

I long for a society where education, housing, medical care and food are structured for the people instead of the profit. Where education helps sort people into the work they're suited for. Where housing is something no one does without. Where medical care is fully free. Where food is food instead of fillers, nutrition instead of chemical design, and feeds people over profit.

[–] TheSlad@sh.itjust.works 13 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

Ok but if the government is spending all that money on its own citizens then how are they going to fund their hobby of blowing up brown people on the other side of the planet?

[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 4 points 11 hours ago

Make the brown people pay for it?

[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 12 hours ago

the politicians will also get UBI. Maybe they can pool their funds together and get the party started

[–] qarbone@lemmy.world 3 points 12 hours ago

People gotta think about these things! Is a happy, supported, educated populace going to get the DOW over 50,000??? Unlikely.

[–] Phil_in_here@lemmy.ca 63 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Can I have 50% of my salary for doing 0% of my work?

[–] IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 51 points 21 hours ago (1 children)
[–] Zizzy@lemmy.blahaj.zone 30 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

False. They get much more than 50%.

[–] GalacticSushi@piefed.blahaj.zone 13 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

And they work hard, it's not easy thinking of bigger numbers every month /s

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[–] Black616Angel@discuss.tchncs.de 14 points 17 hours ago

Now ask, what a student should get, who did their assignment but only got 30%!

[–] Wilco@lemmy.zip 26 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

This is by design. MAGA wants kids to be stupid, only stupid people vote MAGA.

"I love the poorly educated" DJT

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[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 17 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (4 children)

This would've been a godsend to me tbh. I was really bad about completing buzywork homework assignments but I paid attention in class and already understood the material. In high school I'd ace every test and wind up with a C or worse because of the number of missing assignments, it wasn't even intentional, I just frequently forgot about them because they weren't interesting and probably because of some kind of undiagnosed neurodivergence. Of course, there are also kids who might struggle to complete assignments due to complicated home lives.

I don't think making an incomplete count as a 50 is really making grades meaningless. A 50 is still going to hurt you, it just doesn't drag your grade into oblivion. If a student gets 100 on three assignments and misses a fourth, is a grade of 75 really the most accurate representation of how well they understand the material? Counting the incomplete as a 50 would make that an 87.

Sprinkling in zeros can really drag your grade down and can make it feel like your grade doesn't really have much to do with your understanding of the material, and has more to do with being willing and able to work outside of school hours (or to just copy down answers from a friend five minutes before class, which I also didn't do).

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 1 points 38 minutes ago

Assignments are not evidence of learning. Assignments are pressure for students to learn. They are motivation to spend time acquiring knowledge and practicing skills expected to be acquired from the class.

For students who master this knowledge and skill without that pressure, assignments are distractions from further study. They force the student to expend time and energy on previously-mastered material, rather than allowing them to focus on unmastered subjects or additional classes.

If I were building a grading rubric, I would say that the test score at the end of each unit is the minimum score recorded for any assignment in that unit. My tests would be killers: I would target 80% raw scores, but final test scores would be on a curve, with the median score being recorded as an "A".

Score a 100% raw score on a unit test, and every assignment for that unit is raised to 100%. The student has demonstrated complete mastery of the subject matter; any grade less than 100% does not reflect their true capability.

Score an 80% raw score on the unit test, and every assignment for that unit is at least an 80%. A 95% assignment stays a 95%, but a 45% assignment is counted as 80%. Missing assignments are counted as 80%, not 0%.

I would go further: the raw score on the final exam replaces every lower grade in the grade book. You ace that indomitable horror of a final exam, you ace the class, regardless of how much effort you put in.

[–] multifariace@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

This is called grading for equity. It is really hard to do with short attention kids needing instant gratification. The question "is this graded?" being asked for every assignment shows their mindset. If you carefully explain that they will improve the tested skill with the practice, they lose all interest and score poorly on assessment if they even try. The learned need for progress points stymies equitable grading. The majority of students see schooling as a grind for points. They want to earn just enough points to level up without actually retaining skills so they can get back on TikTok.

[–] Canonical_Warlock@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 18 hours ago (4 children)

Rather than giving students points for not doing assignments why not just not have busywork assignments. Just make the grades an even 50% tests and 50% large projects unless the student needs their busywork graded.

I was in the same situation as you (except I did wind up diagnosed with ADHD in my 20s). I aced all my tests and never did homework so was constantly on the verge of failing classes. I always hated having to do the same repetitive memorization busy work when I already knew the info. The best teacher I had in highshool had a rule where they would only ever grade your homework if doing so would improve your overall grade. So because I did well on the tests, in class work, and biger projects I never had to actually do any homework. It's the only class I ever scored over 100% in because I aced every test and did one extra credit project. Why the hell should anyone have to waste their time doing pointless busywork and waste their teachers time grading that pointless busywork when it isn't benefitting their learning in any way. If the student doesn't need it then just skip it. The only reason I can see for it is to desensitize students to doing pointless busywork jobs but we should be eliminating those jobs not conditioning the next generation for them.

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[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 87 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (12 children)

Speaking of disservice to kids in school, I recently learned about the "Three-Cuing" system and how it is basically making kids less literate by having them simply guess the meaning of things they don't understand instead of teaching how to read context, subtext, and use critical thinking skills or basic phonics.. It kinda pissed me off. Especislly since I had already been noticing a trend of young people online putting words into others' mouths or defining words wildly differently than the norm and misunderstanding the entire thing they just read.

[–] The_Picard_Maneuver@piefed.world 39 points 1 day ago (7 children)

I heard about this too, and it's so insane.

I saw an article recently about Mississippi (and/or Alabama?) 4th graders beating out California and New York on reading, and many were crediting that the state mandated phonics over this "take a guess" nonsense.

[–] tenacious_mucus@sh.itjust.works 38 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Am I reading this correctly? MS (and/or AL) having a better reading education system than CA & NY with this?? Wow.

[–] The_Picard_Maneuver@piefed.world 40 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (7 children)

Yes! MS went from 49th to 9th in like 10 years. Most people are crediting it to phonics and their willingness to hold students back if they don't learn the material.

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[–] zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 16 hours ago

And what if they try and get <50%? This means the system is promoting those who invested nothing and don’t even try.

[–] ryven@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

I think the whole idea of grading kids like they're show dogs is pretty gross in the first place. "Welcome to the world, kiddo, the first thing you need to learn is that we're here to judge you, and if you don't bark on command you will be deemed to be a failure."

Fuck that shit.

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[–] ThePantser@sh.itjust.works 24 points 23 hours ago (3 children)

COVID fucked up my kids education so badly they are still trying to catch up. They were in 3rd and 4th grade in 2020, so they lost those prime reading comprehension lessons. But at the same time the schools failed to catch the students up and now they are struggling and instead of helping them they just push them along and pass the buck to the next grade.

[–] ghen@sh.itjust.works 21 points 22 hours ago (4 children)

If your kids are fucked up so badly that they can't handle the next grade then they shouldn't be in the next grade. Who cares if they graduate high school at 18, 19, or 20? None of that matters anymore. But you got to be right for your own kids and hold them back if they need to be held back. If you think the school is doing the wrong thing then you got to step in. Don't just let it happen and complain on the internet.

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[–] TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone 33 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

After following a friend who joined XHS after the initial tiktok ban a year or so ago, I started to notice this trend of Chinese people calling American education "happy education" and I bristled a bit because I didn't find it all that happy. But as I see more and more people point out things like this, how the No Child Left Behind policy was implemented, how resources are diverted away from actually educating children... I kinda get it.

To be fair, I think the Chinese also have a biased lens here since their school days are like twelve hours long, I'm sure 7 AM to 3 PM seems more like daycare in comparison. But I think there's some truth in the mockery.

This doesn't apply to doctoral programs which really just seem like abuse and trauma factories. I don't know a single happy, well adjusted doctor.

[–] ChicoSuave@lemmy.world 25 points 1 day ago (4 children)

China kills themselves for schooling and does as well as Americans in business and science so it's hard to see one being better than the other.

[–] fushuan@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Maybe, just maybe, the objective of education isn't just science or business.

Maybe being science/math/humanities literate is good for society as a whole.

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